I started hanging out on the internet when I went back to college in 1995. I found the Knit List. It was wonderful! It was also my first experience with the mean girls gang. You would have these women insist that the list be run to suit them. They would complain and bitch about something. The people running the list would accommodate them, then they would find something else to complain about. It got old. I wound up starting my own website and my own mailing list. And complainers about my list were told they could start their own and run it any way they chose.
I hear that excuse from people that support the way Ravelry is going. But Ravelry is not a personal website. It is a business. And businesses have to play under different rules. Carriers, like your cell phone company, operate under a certain set of laws, because traffic just passes through them. Platforms operate under a different set as they monitor and restrict speech. Tech companies want it both ways. They want to restrict speech and be unregulated like a carrier. That needs to stop. We have Google taking down a video of how Google plans to stop someone like Donald Trump from ever running for President again. If you think this is a great idea, try reversing that where a conservative business plans to stop the run of a Democratic candidate. We can’t allow these companies to police themselves.
Let me make this plain as I can. You cannot slander and smear an entire group of people, just because you don’t like their politics. I have not seen a single instance of anyone on Ravelry that has been guilty of “white supremicist” behavior. No one, anywhere, has an example. It has all been guilt by association. Trump is supposed to be a white supremicist, based on biased and slanted stories from the main stream media. Therefore, you are guilty if you support that. This is wrong. Let me say it again, this is wrong and you should know that. Let’s stop pretending there are groups on Ravelry full of Storm Front supporters, If you have an example of it, fine. But you don’t. I am not on everything at Ravelry, but I do not see any political talk anywhere. I can see, just by description, which groups are full of social justice warriors. I avoid those groups. It’s the mean girls of the internet all over again, humorless scolds that want to tell you want to do and how to think. The fact that those groups exist doesn’t “trigger” me. I don’t require that they be purged. I just avoid them. The other side doesn’t feel that way. People must be brought into line or kicked off. The glee about this decision is sickening. People that have never interacted with me at all, encouraging me to leave Ravelry sooner rather than later. I’ve had people quote back the manifesto to me, as if it’s gospel. The people at Ravelry are lying. That document is to try and cover their asses legally. This is in fact a purge of anyone that doesn’t do what they say. Unrestricted speech for the Left, but no speech at all on the Right. Why would anyone want to stay under those terms?
I titled this “Where We Went Wrong”. People used to make private websites and run email lists. If you weren’t a techy, there were sites like Geocities that would make it easier to set up a website. You had forums like Delphi. All of these required effort, but it was your own space. You had some control over it. Social media promised that you didn’t have to do any work at all. But with social media, YOU are the product. Your information is used for marketing. You really don’t have an option to opt out. They can track your information way beyond your visit to their site. And social media has brought out the worst of the mean girl club. They are now basically online mobs. They don’t think twice about putting where you live online, pressuring the company you work at. Even the companies that created these social media sites have remarked on it.
We need to return to smaller, more manageable groups. We need our own places again. We don’t need some giant site like Ravelry. We need less unrestricted speech, not more censorship. We need places where we can discuss craft and put all political discussion aside. We need places where crafters come together. Ravelry is on its way to becoming a very ugly place, make no mistake about it.
The internet is full of dead links. Make Ravelry one of them.
Standing up and cheering wildly!
So far, I feel like it’s not enough.
I agree. I was very upset last night. People I had admired, purchased products from, made the “Rhinebeck Sweater” with were saying horrible things. Posting on Instagram how great Ravelry is. I unfollowed a bunch of people and was near tears. Then, I realized the world that I thought I was a part of, those people weren’t my friends. Ravelry and other social media sites are really an alternate reality. These people are buying up yarn, project bags, etc. They are greedy when you think about it. Who can ever knit all of the yarn these people sit in front of when they’re podcasting. Ravelry was fun while it lasted, let’s get back down to meeting face to face, sharing patterns hastily written on a scrap paper. Let’s just be true knitters again.
Amen. I have been surprised at support from some folks. This is not really how I expected to be spending my time. But this is one of the things social media has done. It disconnects us from human interaction. And it’s a time waster.
I’ve not been able to participate in local groups. I work an odd shift and I’ve had some health issues. Even there, you can run into problems. In general, people tend to be nicer when you are face to face. On the Internet, they are less restrained.
I know what you mean about not being able to participate in local groups – I live far from where our local knitting guild meets – however, I live in a very “Liberal” state and most of the big groups have been hijacked by the pink hats. We do have a small group in our Village and although that group is pretty calm – we’ve had our moments. I meet with one of the members of the village group offline so that we can just laugh, exchange ideas and knit. But – working 5 days a week, etc… well… Did anyone else wonder how some of the people in the Ravelry Forums find the time to sit there and compose all of their political nonsense and attacks? There are a lot of people out there with a lot of “empty time” on their hands. I am on the way to deleting my Ravelry account – I want to be sure that I have the patterns that I want to keep. I’ve saved my purchased patterns to my husband’s computer already. Then – I’ll flip the switch.
Wow, Christine. I’m sorry that happened, and I’m sorrier that people are so quick to spread lies about a group of people they do not know.
One of my “favorite” lines from Casey’s plagiarized post was that you can remain if you shut up. Of course, they still want to take money off us. They get paid by “clicks” and the advertising rates are based on numbers of customers a vendor might reach. They are free to us, because they sell access to us. I have been spreading this idea everywhere I can, so that more people will let go of Ravelry as a “community”, it’s a business.
There really isn’t a “knitting community” there are people who knit. Some can lay aside partisan politics, some can’t. Presidential elections since 2000 have been very polarizing, and this one has been the worst.
It never occurred to me that crafting would become so divided. There’s a limited pie and some vendors probably would like to shove others out and impugning the integrity of someone can be effective, like that poor lady who just wanted to be excited about her trip to India. She was pilloried, and others offered their products as free of bigotry. As for membership, hopefully falling numbers hurts them more than it does us.
When something is free, YOU are the product. They also went after Kate Davies although I don’t know the specifics.
One of the forums I was on had a new spinner. She went to a local group. One woman pulled the spindle out of her hand and told her she was doing it wrong. It took her hours to repair the yarn that was damaged. Another took her fiber, pulled it into small pieces and walked away, without showing her how to deal with it. We can all do without that kind of “help”.
I was thinking about Christine’s post. For so much of my life, I’ve been too broke to buy a lot of fiber and fiber toys. I bought a lot of yarn from thrift stores. I spun a lot of yarn from poor quality fleeces. The thing is, I learned a lot from that. I learned how to do colorwork and what to do when you run out of a yarn that is irreplaceable. I learned how to deal with that poor quality fleece that made it a snap to deal with the good quality stuff. I learned what things I really needed and what I could live without. I am blessed to be able to buy more stuff now. It’s a lot of fun. But you simply don’t learn as much if you can just go out and buy something. The most expensive sweater I did is nice and I did a good job on it technically. It was interesting in that the yarn had been discontinued and I had to do some work to buy what I needed. I’m not sure it would have been the same, if I’d just been able to walk into a store and spend the $250 for yarn.
I think creativity is born from having to make do.
Knitty is “standing” with Ravelry and compared us to Nazis
Of course they are. Might be easier to find out who advertises there. I just dread Ply weighing in on this.
They do have an easy list to find. I thought I’d let Sweet Georgia Yarns know that they are advertising on a site that might make them subject to falling sales. Their big advertiser is Valley yarns.
I’m worried about how Ply will weigh in too. It has a smaller share of the pie right now. I’ve subscribed to Spin-off for years and they’ve stayed fairly neutral. Although the publisher that owns rights to all of the Interweave publications filed Chapter 9. If I were a business dealing with Ravelry latest pronouncement, I’d do a lot of data analysis regarding my customer base before saying rah, rah about Ravelry. But, like I always say bad things will happen, but if you keep the faith, great opportunities will come your way. If we all do our homework, address this issue in a thoughtful, not reactive way, we’ll come out of this with a better product.
All magazines are going through a rough spell. Advertising dollars going elsewhere and too expensive for casual viewing. (I see $13 for a magazine in the store and I put it back. )
I’ve been buying back issues of Ply. If they stay neutral, I can keep doing that.
We need an alternative website for crafters. Teri, if you see any way for me to help, please let me know. I’m one of those who by Casey’s new directive was told, basically, “Sit down and shut up. You can spend money here, but you have no voice.” So even though I’d never participated in any political discussion, I canceled my account, along with my 28 original patterns for sale.
I’m hoping we can find a way to go forward from here. The American marketplace is a powerful force—including the marketplace of ideas. Keep America Great!
I’m working on that. There’s social media forum software I can set up. I need time to work on it. I have no desire to be Ravelry but I think we’d be a lot better off with smaller, multiple sites.
Sounds interesting. Please keep me posted.
Will do
Keep me posted as well. We don’t need another Ravelry . . . I only went in the forums a couple of times . . . I went on to see the top 10 patterns, things like that. The couple of times I did comment on a post I made a great new friend! Linda! Most of us just enjoyed the patterns and occasionally looking at the projects made from a specific yarn. Keeping up with all of the group postings – I never did it – too time consuming. A sharing of patterns and artistry is what I think the majority of people really are into.
I believe we need what they claim to want–a safe space. And while I have no desire to police someone’s political views, I think we need a politics free space. Maybe the politics goes elsewhere.
Yes, Chris. Exactly!
Teri, I think that’s it: a politics-free space is what we need. No agendas, no special interest groups (other than fiber arts), most especially no disparaging of each other. For a site that claims to want inclusivity, Ravelry certainly went at it all backwards. We can do a lot better; we owe it to each other and our beloved fiber arts.
There’s a reason they call it “virtue signaling”. They signal their moral superiority to us and claim to be part of an elite. Some of these people are fanatics.
I don’t care what color a person’s skin is; I don’t care to know their sexual preferences. I do care about artistic talent and sound business practices. There should be a way to “virtue signal” those qualities.
Oh, wait . . . there is. It’s called the free market.
Anyway, are you off Ravelry yet?
Not yet. There are a few folks that I want to message before I go. I did delete all my projects, stash pictures, etc yesterday. It’s interesting that the forums I was on all seem to be acting as though nothing has changed. Of course, Ravelry is permitting forums where people can express their support for their “brave” decision.
I live by my personal motto: “Bless those who disappoint you, for they are leading you toward a better path.” Following my own advice led me this morning to purchase a kit direct from DanDoh. Wherever possible, I shall henceforth deal directly with designers. Thanks for the spur to action, Casey!
Yes, designers would be wise to sell from their own site. I am still purchasing through Etsy.
I’m not off Ravelry yet – just about. I’m still going through some of the patterns that I saved for free – to see which ones I want to save – then I’ll be done with it. I’m trying to go through the patterns on my 1/2 hour lunch time here at work. I haven’t been in any of the forums in a few days . . . what I saw was pretty bad.
Slogging through the patterns is the worst. I had a large bundle I’d gotten for free, and I decided I’d never make them. If I never buy another pattern, I’d still have lots to knit. I also wanted to save Cherricongo’s post on spindle spinning yarn for a sweater. It’s good information. I can’t save his pictures but I do have the notes now.
There’s Mean and Controlling, and then there’s Kind and Non-Controlling. Casey made his choice; I know which side I’d rather be on.
I bolted as quickly as possible. Now what to do with Bluprint. I received a subscription as a gift, but nearly all (ALL I can track down) side with ravelry and have made it clear. I assume the bluprint crowd only chooses devout leftists. I look at their FB pages, and if they think I’m a racist, no sale. Interestingly, many designers “like” a very weird FB page, it makes no sense https://www.facebook.com/EA10000/?fref=pb&hc_location=profile_browser. I don’t know if it’s a signlal, a source of Turkish freebie yarn, or an insider joke.
I think I’d ask for a refund, since they no longer want your participation. And that is a weird Facebook page.
So far they haven’t thrown in with Ravelry, so I’ll choose my free classes from the few teachers who are smart enough to agree with Michael Jordan: “Republicans buy shoes too”
I think Bluprint is teetering anyway, why else would they offer $20 off a $40 purchase?
I looked at their page, they post about their items which is what I’d expect of a business, they do not, so far, run their mouths about politics. I prefer my hobbies apolitical, but if they can’t be I favor a free for all (excepting name calling, which seems to be Casey’s stock in trade)
They used to be Craftsy, right? I took Gudrun Johnston’s hap class there, half off. I might have taken some other classes but they wanted full price.
Yes, Zibeline, I agree. I see Rav still has the F*** Trump scarf up and featured among the top 20. Of course, it’s free. Which is more than it’s worth.
That’s right, Craftsy. Just in case they get all political I used their coupon, bought 40.00 of the cheapest yarn I liked, and knocked off 20.00. 11 Skeins of Valentina for 22.00 can’t be beat. I found some Utah teacher with a single course who seems apolitical, and free purchased her course
Who knows? Maybe they’ll decide it’s not worth it to be woke.
Anyway, I have a letter out to them suggesting that their instructors’ rude online presences could deter sales.
Oh, and I don’t know if it’s my letter, but Sweet Georgia Yarns is no longer advertising with knitty. I wrote to WEBS today.
Fantastic! I think I’ll order her dyeing book!
Yay, Zibeline! Great work.
I started trying to make a list of yarn companies to contact but it was overwhelming. Most sites do have contact forms. We should at least contact the vendors that we use.
I suppose some other people have written too. WEBS seems like a good place to contact. I know Bartlett and Brown Sheep are not steeped in liberalism.
I could write Little Knits. But…Seattle.
The Knitty list is really rather small. Some, I’m sure are lib and get most of their profit from libs. WEBS is huge, uses discount pricing, and is less likely to risk losing sales.
On another topic, I’ve never understood why Bartlett is not more popular as an American brand. They come up with some great colors and the pricing is not bad.
I am exploring a Michigan producer Stone Hedge. I bought some of their multis and the quality is great. Northern Mi is not a heavily lib place.
Because people don’t know how wonderful Bartlett is. I didn’t and I’ve knit for a long time. That hap I did out of Bartletts is wonderful! I wore it outside when it was 20 degrees and it was cozy. I really should order enough for a sweater. I bet it would last longer than the stuff I made with Rowan
Phone is 800-367-9327, 8-6 EST
I am a huge fan of their yarn, the quality is better than many and it’s made here. They took a lot of heat for going to the WH for some small business show, and issued no apology. They went anyway.